Brand awareness is BS with Navneet Singh
Congratulations. Your brand just generated 10 million impressions. Unfortunately, nobody cares.
Welcome to another episode of Marketing Mischief & Mayhem, where we challenge marketing's sacred cows, question conventional wisdom, and occasionally make a few CMOs spill their coffee.
This week, Russell Quinan, Co-Founder and Chief Strategy Officer of TheorySF, sits down with Navneet Singh, CMO of Eightfold AI and former marketing leader at Palo Alto Networks and Cisco, for a conversation that might make your marketing dashboard feel a little inadequate.
Nav has helped drive more than $1 billion in bookings. So when he says brand awareness alone is a vanity metric, it's probably worth putting down your latte and listening.
Because here's the uncomfortable truth: Getting noticed isn't the same as getting chosen.
Nav argues that the real power of brand isn't simply awareness. It's velocity. It's getting the meeting in two days instead of two months. It's making the shortlist before your competitors finish their PowerPoint. It's becoming the company buyers trust before the sales pitch even begins.
And that's just where the trouble starts.
In this episode, we get into:
Brand awareness is BS. Why impressions are easy to count, but influence is what actually counts.
Nobody cares about your features. Sorry, engineers. Your revolutionary architecture isn't a brand strategy.
The billion-dollar brand advantage. How strong positioning can accelerate pipeline, shorten sales cycles, and make selling easier.
AI-powered? Join the club. Why slapping AI onto your positioning is the fastest way to sound like everyone else.
Death by committee. Why the most dangerous phrase in marketing might be "Let's get everyone aligned."
Stop worshipping the analysts. Why Gartner and Forrester can help you make the shortlist but shouldn't determine your future.
The problem with playing it safe. Why the best strategic ideas aren't always the ones everyone agrees with.
We also explore Nav's concept of pipeline positioning, the difference between educating a market and completely reframing it, and why the smartest technology brands sell a belief rather than a laundry list of features.
Then it's time for our infamous Lightning Round, where Nav takes aim at marketing's most overused words, questionable metrics, pointless meetings, and the things that keep CMOs staring at the ceiling at 3 a.m.
The big takeaway?
If your brand strategy starts and ends with awareness, congratulations. You've successfully created a very expensive popularity contest.
Great brands don't just get noticed.
They get chosen.
And there's a billion-dollar difference.
If you're a CMO, marketing leader, founder, or B2B strategist who's tired of measuring everything except what actually matters, this episode is for you.
Grab a coffee. Hide your impression reports. And prepare to question a few things you've been putting in your board presentations.
Marketing Mischief & Mayhem is hosted by Russell Quinan, Co-Founder and Chief Strategy Officer of TheorySF, a San Francisco brand and performance marketing agency helping ambitious technology companies become unignorable.
Because being seen is nice. Being chosen is better.
Beyond Brand Awareness: How B2B Branding Drives Revenue
Does brand awareness actually drive B2B sales? How can CMOs connect brand investment to pipeline, purchasing decisions, and revenue growth?
In this episode of Marketing Mischief & Mayhem, Eightfold AI Chief Marketing Officer Navneet Singh joins TheorySF's Russell Quinan to challenge conventional thinking about brand awareness, marketing measurement, and technology positioning.
Drawing on his experience at Cisco, Palo Alto Networks, and Eightfold AI, Singh explains why the most valuable B2B brands do more than generate impressions. They create trust, establish preference, accelerate buying decisions, and help companies become strategic partners rather than interchangeable vendors.
The conversation introduces Singh's concept of pipeline positioning: moving beyond descriptions of what a technology product does to articulate the urgent business problem it uniquely solves.
Russell and Nav also explore how AI is changing technology branding, why product features rarely create emotional differentiation, how creativity should work in complex technical categories, and why internal consensus can weaken the strongest marketing ideas.
For CMOs, technology founders, and B2B marketing leaders, the episode offers a practical perspective on the relationship between brand strategy, differentiation, buyer confidence, and business growth.
# Brand Awareness Is BS — Edited Podcast Transcript
Marketing Mischief & Mayhem
Host: Russell Quinan, Co-Founder and Chief Strategy Officer, TheorySF
Guest: Navneet Singh, Chief Marketing Officer, Eightfold AI
Edited for readability from the recorded conversation. Minor transcription errors, punctuation and repetitions have been cleaned up. Timestamps are approximate; verify against the final video before publishing.
## Introduction: Navneet Singh and technology brand leadership
Russell Quinan [00:00]: Hey everybody, welcome back to Marketing Mischief & Mayhem. My name is Russell Quinan and I'm the Chief Strategy Officer of TheorySF in San Francisco. We're a brand and performance marketing agency for technology companies and we've been having terrific conversations with our clients and some friends in the industry about what's really happening on the front lines of tech B2B marketing. I'm really excited about today's guest. First, because he said yes, but secondly, he's someone who spent his career doing the hardest thing in marketing, making extremely complex technology feel obvious, valuable, and occasionally desirable. He's helped turn firewalls into platforms, AI into a growth engine, and security marketing into a billion dollar booking machine. First at Cisco, then at Palo Alto Networks, and now as chief marketing officer at Eightfold AI, where the challenge isn't stopping attackers, but helping companies see human potential more clearly. So he's proof that the best CMOs don't just tell a story. They decide which story deserves to exist, protect it from internal gravity, and then tie it directly to revenue. Basically, if you've ever wondered what happens when product rigor, strategic courage, and creative restraint sit at the same table, this is it. Welcome to the podcast, Navneet Singh.
Navneet Singh [01:24]: Thank you, thank you Russell, it's great to be here.
Russell Quinan [01:26]: Well, we're so happy to have you. And as we always do now, we're going to go ahead and jump right in, OK?
Navneet Singh [01:31]: Yes.
## Marketing cybersecurity without fear
Russell Quinan [01:32]: You've marketed in categories where fear is a feature, not a bug. How do you create emotional connection without amplifying anxiety?
Navneet Singh [01:42]: Yeah, so when I was at Palo Alto Networks, about 10 years I was there. If you look at marketing in cybersecurity, but also in other industries like healthcare, insurance, fear can potentially be the default for many marketers. Like have you really thought about your retirement or something about insurance, something going wrong, right? And that's the fear that you want to capitalize on. Cyber security was definitely no different. But the way to really educate the market and to really create love for your brand is to show the customers what's possible. one of the marketing tactics that we used was really to the possibility of what's possible when the cybersecurity is not a problem and you're not afraid of attacks. So there was a poem written by a nine-year-old girl which was about all the different kinds of things that can be imagined. Future innovations that are completely wild and wacky but those are all possible because the child feels safe from threats.
Navneet Singh [03:08]: and they are free to imagine. And that's one of the areas that we used and we said the future is full of possibilities when you're free to imagine with the right cybersecurity in place, right? So let people see what's possible when there is right cybersecurity. And similarly, when I look at Eightfold and AI in general, we cannot be positioning AI as a replacement, but as a shield. So I take a look at multiple other companies. For example, Hippocratic AI is one company that I look at. you healthcare is terrifying. Lives are at stake. They didn't run from the fear of AI making mistakes. They branded their entire company around do no harm, safety focused around the Hippocratic oath. And they turned that into a moat. Similarly, Eightfold AI and other companies have an opportunity to talk about how AI is not replacing ones but is really helping you. As an example, while hiring, there is always some unconscious bias that creeps in. There have been studies that show you judge a person within the first few seconds. It's just wired into our evolutionary brain. So
Navneet Singh [04:27]: we can talk about how we've done multiple studies of anti-bias and made sure that our AI interviewer is fair to everyone and opens up more opportunities that were not possible.
Russell Quinan [04:40]: Hmm, interesting, interesting. You know, when you talked about possibilities with Palo Alto Networks, know, at TheorySF, we did a global campaign for the world's largest cybersecurity company. And we broke every record they ever had anywhere in the world. because in our audit of all the brands, everybody says, be scared, be scared, buy us now, be scared. You're gonna have ransomware, you're gonna be destitute and poor, you won't have a house, you're gonna be living in the streets very quickly. And it was fear, fear, fear. And we actually took the exact opposite track. We said, actually our campaign was called Live Your Best Connected Life, and go ahead and do all the stupid stuff you wanna do. Be as wild and crazy as you wanna be, and we'll take care of the rest. I totally, totally am in complete alignment with you because again, know, strategically, I like to zig when everybody zags. And I think that was, that was a great read. It certainly worked for us and for our client. They ended up selling out to Norton. So that was quite successful. So, hey, when a category becomes crowded with AI powered, right? Everything's AI whitewash now or AI wash, whatever we want to call it. What's the first thing you strip away before you add anything new?
## Standing out in an AI-powered category
Navneet Singh [05:58]: When the category becomes crowded and it's AI powered you really have to strip away you know the noun of the old category like for example if we call ourselves some kind of a platform it's fine but at the same time it just sounds like everyone else. As I was mentioning to you right I look at other companies like look at cursor they don't say they are an AI powered code editor because everybody's saying AI powered. And they frame themselves as the AI code editor, does the work for you. It is an agent. It's an agent that develops. So it's no longer a tool for developers, but it actually develops for you. And so I think for us, for example, in the talent space, instead of talking about process efficiency or software for HR, we want to talk about the intelligence layer for the workforce. The workforce of the future is going to be an infinite workforce. So Anthropic CEO said that AI is going to give you a country of geniuses in a data center. And
Navneet Singh [07:13]: imagine if all of them had agency and they had agents and that was at your, that intelligence was available to you. with humans and agents, you could ultimately have an infinite workforce.
Navneet Singh [07:30]: And we can be the AI that helps customers reach there. So it's no longer just AI powered. It's about how are we going to get customers to that future where they can create an infinite workforce and break that linear dependency. Whenever you need to increase output, you need to increase headcount.
Navneet Singh [07:57]: So how can you achieve more? And I think that's where you have to start stripping away some of the nouns of the old category before you can have new language like the infinite workforce or a country of geniuses.
Russell Quinan [08:12]: Interesting. Interesting, and it's coming and there's nothing we're going to do to stop it. So we might as well figure out how to work it. I've just been a lot of conversation about human in the loop, right? Because
Navneet Singh [08:21]: Yes.
Russell Quinan [08:21]: we, and it's funny with some of our AI clients, it's really important that we start communicating how this isn't replacement. And that's the big fear, right? Cause every, we know every fortune 2000, their board is saying you have to start having an AI strategy and start figuring out where we can be leveraging that. But the fear is, know, when a CMO comes to us is I don't want to make it sound like we're replacing people. though that might happen. We need to find out what's the language around how AI and humans will interoperate and how AI supports humans so that humans can do something more awesome than just doing, you know, menial tasks, you know, ad nauseum. So that's a really interesting thing. Obviously, we're going to see how that how how all that comes to fruition and what's next. So you've driven over a billion dollars in bookings. That's amazing, by the way. Congratulations on that. That's huge.
Navneet Singh [09:11]: Thank you.
## Brand awareness versus brand velocity
Russell Quinan [09:12]: Where does brand actually show up in that number? And where do marketers lie to themselves about its impact?
Navneet Singh [09:19]: I would say marketers lie when they tell you brand is just like awareness. I think that's vanity. Brand
Navneet Singh [09:27]: shows up in my view in velocity. Brand is the reason where CHRO who would be our buyer, brand would be the reason they take the meeting in two days instead of two months.
Navneet Singh [09:43]: Brand is the reason the CFO doesn't redline the contract because they feel nobody gets fired for buying XYZ solution. So again, if I take some other examples from the industry as well, Harvey is a great example. They now have massive brand velocity because they position themselves as professional class AI for elite law firms. They don't just sell a tool. They said, is our badge of honor. We work with law firms that are hundreds of years old, elite law firms, right? So they lubricate the entire sales cycle. If your brand is strong, then you aren't fighting a feature. Then you are the strategic partner.
Navneet Singh [10:29]: You if you have to explain why you exist in slide 10, of your deck, then you don't have a brand, then you have a product.
Russell Quinan [10:38]: You're already dead. You know, that's interesting. One of the slides that we show, a lot of new technology companies come to us to brand and to get ready. And we have to have that conversation. Well, why are we going to spend on brand? Everybody wants to go to performance marketing, right? To get their MQLs and their SQLs and whatever other acronyms that their VC wants before they get their next little bundle of marketing dollars for the next quarter. And I have a slide that I love. It might be from Gartner, it might be from Forrester. I'm not remembering. But it shows the process that known brands need to go through to make it through like a Fortune 500 procurement process. And it's death by a thousand duck bites with all these avenues off of the one you want to be on because they don't know you, simply put. But known brands, straight to the short list. So velocity, that makes an awful lot of sense to me. I loved your explanation there. So Nav, what's the difference between clear positioning and positioning that actually moves pipeline.
## Pipeline positioning that drives business
Navneet Singh [11:40]: Clear positioning a lot of people can do. Clear positioning describes what you do. And pipeline positioning or positioning that actually moves the pipeline. That describes the urgent problem you solve that no one else can. So if you say, and I'm gonna take a dig at what we've done sometimes as well. Like if we just say, Eightfold is a talent intelligence platform, that's great, but it's also boring. puts you in a spreadsheet comparison, right? What is that platform? What are the characteristics, feature comparison? So on the other hand, if we say, we prevent your workforce from becoming obsolete in the age of AI, that's the positioning that is becoming, you're now becoming a strategic partner. Now customers want to talk to you, customers want to... Reference you customers want to learn from you customers want to attend your user conference because they learn from you as well as the thought leaders that will gather around right
Navneet Singh [12:43]: so another example Typeface which is AI for marketing says that the content stack is broken. It needs an architectural inflection point That clearly creates a before and after right so that that is something that's positioning that moves the pipeline and I call that pipeline positioning. doesn't just describe what you do, but it describes that urgent problem that you solve that no one else can.
Russell Quinan [13:14]: You know, I want to thank you for that. I've actually never heard that term before of pipeline positioning, because we do a lot of positioning exercises for our clients. But I really like how you stated that it's almost a little more outcome focused, right? Than just what are you, right? What's your special sauce?
Navneet Singh [13:32]: Yes. Yes.
## Creativity and technical credibility
Russell Quinan [13:34]: Which I hear so often. So in highly technical categories, Where does creativity add the most leverage? And where does it actively get in the way?
Navneet Singh [13:45]: Creativity is needed, right? It's needed to explain why you matter. It lends leverage in the metaphor. So for example, again, if I take the example of typeface, you know, talking about marketing, they use the concept of Arc agents and brand hubs. These are creative metaphors that make complex AI feel like a tangible, like teammate. That's what they call them, agents. These are your teammates who will help you in your marketing campaign. But at the same time, I think it is possible for you to get in the way if you use just creativity to get too cute with how the tech works.
Navneet Singh [14:32]: For example, if you're building deep learning models, then you don't really need to describe fluffy marketing words to describe the architecture. So you don't need whimsical names to describe the deep learning core that you have, then you lose the CIO. So be creative with the outcome, I would say. For example, you can call it meritocracy, potential and outcomes that you want to achieve. Be creative in explaining that, in using creativity to explain that, but be clinically precise with the engine that works. And if you try to get too cute with the engine explanation, use marketing fluff words, then it could get in the way. Then you could lose the tech audience or the audience that knows how something works.
Russell Quinan [15:21]: Sure. So let me ask you this, would you agree with the statement that out at the awareness level, yes, we want creativity because we have to break through and get attention, right? But then as we start bringing in our prospects into our funnel, we start to slowly, as we get deeper into the tech itself, we need to get more real there and it's less cutesy and less creative. It's more real for the CIO.
Navneet Singh [15:43]: That's right. And maybe you can, we can even call it use creativity in a different way, which is how are we going to simplify the technology, use simple words to explain it rather than coming up with like names and metaphors and something else that describes the technology that gets you away from how the technology works. Because people really want to understand once they are interested, they really want to understand how it works and how they're how their day-to-day life will be when they use your product or service.
## Educating versus reframing the market
Russell Quinan [16:14]: Right, right, makes sense. So how do you decide when to educate the market versus when to reframe it?
Navneet Singh [16:22]: You educate when the problem may be new, but you reframe when old solution is dead but the market hasn't realized it.
Russell Quinan [16:35]: Hmm. Talk more about that.
Navneet Singh [16:38]: So we, for example, spent years educating the market on talent intelligence because that problem and that solution was new. Now, that phase might be over. Now, the whole industry is moving towards AI and agentic. Now, with AI, you need to reframe. So for example, again, taking the example of cursor, right, they aren't teaching devs how to code. So they aren't like educating devs how to code. So that part they don't need to do. They're just reframing coding as a collaboration between humans and agents. So they are reframing
Navneet Singh [17:19]: how coding will be done in the future. And we are reframing HR. We don't need to teach or educate people how to recruit better.
Navneet Singh [17:31]: And we need to reframe the entire function as talent design. So you don't need to teach people skills-based hiring. You just reframe that the resume is an artifact of the industrial era. The resume looks at what you have done in the past. It cannot predict potential. That's where you need Eightfold, as an example, to look at skills, to look at all the data that we have correlated over the last nine years to see. If you've done X, Y, and Z, what can you do in the future? How do we do that matching? How do we surface more opportunities for candidates that they may not themselves have thought that they are great fit for? And then
Navneet Singh [18:21]: at that time, you need to reframe the problem.
## The marketing metrics CMOs overvalue
Russell Quinan [18:24]: Interesting. That's actually, I'm fascinated with Eightfold. That's very cool. I've never thought about that, but you're absolutely right. Resumes are complete old school artifact of an old era. That's fascinating. Yeah, that's actually really interesting. So what's the most dangerous metric modern CMOs over optimize for?
Navneet Singh [18:49]: Every CMO might be different. One thing that I have seen a lot of CMOs do is brand impressions and it is possible. I've seen CMOs optimize for that and that you know today's age you can generate infinite content and you don't really need to tweet 50 times a day. You know when I look at companies that are successful they optimize for prestige, they optimize for high value signal. The It is possible that people optimize for volume and that I think can be dangerous. The metric you want to use is the intensity of adoption or you can call it reliance on you and the times that your customers are actually quoting you or using you for critical decisions. example, now this may not be an easy metric, but let's say if there was a way to measure how many C-level execs from our customer, they cite our data in their board decks
Navneet Singh [19:52]: for work for workforce planning or designing for the future, right? That's really a metric of a strategic AI partner.
Russell Quinan [20:02]: Yeah.
Navneet Singh [20:02]: Other metrics would be just using the how well your product is used. It's the usage, the consumption, rather than just looking at some. some high-level metrics like brand impressions. So that's what I think is sometimes people over-optimize for, but people have to think about how do you measure how you are being used, how you are being quoted in different arenas.
## When to listen to Gartner and Forrester
Russell Quinan [20:31]: Interesting. So you've lived inside Gartner and Forrester narratives. When should marketers respect analysts and when should they just ignore them?
Navneet Singh [20:40]: Great question. I know that it is possible that I will offend some analyst friends here, but I
Russell Quinan [20:47]: Nobody's watching, it doesn't matter.
Navneet Singh [20:50]: believe you should respect them for shortlists and ignore them for vision. So analysts are historians. They categorize what exists, make it easy for people to see those categories. And if we want to fit perfectly into talent management or some kind of a magic quadrant, then yes, we should appear there because that's how a lot of the customers shortlist vendors. So definitely important. But at the same time, if you look at OpenAI, Midjourney, Harvey, they didn't wait for a quadrant. They created GravityBit by their own work and that analysts had to chase. So use the analysts to make sure the procurement team feels safe. They are choosing a tool that is tested and has been in use with other enterprises, but you kind of have to ignore them when building your roadmap. If you build only what analysts ask for, then you're building a faster horse. So I
Russell Quinan [22:00]: Right?
Navneet Singh [22:01]: think that's the difference. And it's important, but at the same time, it's one voice.
## Why consensus weakens great ideas
Russell Quinan [22:09]: Sure, sure. So how do you protect a strong idea from being sanded down by process alignment and internal consensus?
Navneet Singh [22:18]: This also might be, I might offend some people who want to work in democratic processes. I believe that protecting strong ideas is done by killing consensus. So transformation ideas are polarizing.
Navneet Singh [22:37]: So if everybody in the room agrees, it's probably too safe.
Navneet Singh [22:42]: And so we talked about some of these ideas or positioning statements that we talked about, right? pipeline positioning, like if Hippocratic AI, didn't seek consensus in the safety first with whether that was a good marketing slogan. They said this is going to be our hiring oath for every employee. It was a mandate. And so I think that's where if we want to transition from purely being seen as an HR tech company because we are an AI company. We just, sometimes some of our buyers might say, hey, what about HR? Are you only AI? Are you only tech? So it could be polarizing if we say we are an AI company, right? So, but you have to protect the idea by creating, sometimes you have to create a team which is protected from all of this consensus making.
Navneet Singh [23:34]: And they just come up with ideas and execute and test them and experiment. And
Russell Quinan [23:39]: That's right.
Navneet Singh [23:39]: I think that's where you... bypass the alignment meetings where good ideas die.
Russell Quinan [23:45]: Exactly, exactly. You know, one of my favorite quotes is there was no committee behind Michelangelo when
Navneet Singh [23:53]: Yeah
Russell Quinan [23:53]: he was doing his great works, right? And the other one I heard that I love is, and you were close to it, was a horse drawn by committee will become a camel. So yeah, and especially in the creative process, you know, there can't be so many chefs in the kitchen, right? It needs to come down to one decision maker who can you know, have the authority to actually make a decision and to not water everything down. Because, you know, when we come up with our ideas, we come up with our strategy, we come up with our creative, it has a very sharp edge. And we need that edge these days to break through, right? And to cut through all the white noise. Like you said, we need that strong signal. And boy, the more it gets sanded down and the more it gets revised into almost meaningless nothingness, the work just doesn't work anymore. So I loved your answer. I hope more clients listen to that kind of an answer and protect. So what's the hardest transition for a product-led organization when it realizes it needs a belief-led brand? So transitioning from product-led to a belief-led brand, what's the hardest transition?
## Moving from features to a belief-led brand
Navneet Singh [25:04]: The hardest transition is for them to realize that nobody cares about their features.
Russell Quinan [25:13]: What? Is that rude? What?
Navneet Singh [25:18]: engineers fall in love, as all of us know, fall in love with features and, you know, deep learning modes, all the features that capabilities that we have and the wonderful new capabilities that are coming out as part of the roadmap. But a belief like brand falls in love with the why. So the transition is painful because you have to tell the product team, I know you worked hard for this feature, but we are not going to talk about it. And you have to talk about the belief. So we have to, as an example, we may have to say, these are not the capabilities that we talk about, but we really have to sell the belief. that skills are the only fair way to organize the world's potential. And that's how you, if that's the statement that customers resonate with, and it could be a polarizing statement, but then the customers who resonate with it will really love your brand.
## Where marketing strategy fails
Russell Quinan [26:19]: Amazing. I love your answers. They're so crisp and clean. This is an amazing conversation, Nef. Thank you. In your experience, where does strategy most often fail? In the insight, in courage, or the actual execution?
Navneet Singh [26:35]: I'm sure if you ask a lot of people, they'll have different answers because all three could potentially seem to be correct, right? I believe that they do not fail in insight or execution. I believe they always fail in courage. So most CMOs have the insight. And you know that, for example, if we say that we want to change our identity to an AI company, You know that Eightfold is currently being seen as, or in the past was seen as an HR tech company,
Navneet Singh [27:09]: right? The data shows it. But you have to have the courage to walk away from the easy money of just being a better XYZ product. To claim the higher ground, the harder ground of AI company, an agentic company as an example, it does feel risky, especially for a company like us, right? Who is not like, a company that was born in the last two years,
Navneet Singh [27:35]: post-ChatGPT world. So it definitely feels risky because we are already successful. It feels risky to tell an HR buyer we aren't just HR tech. it is, it takes courage to look at a competitor and say, you are the filing cabinet. That's what we are walking away from. We are building a system of faction. That's why the customers are going to use it. And I think execution is just work,
Navneet Singh [28:04]: but strategy requires the guts.
Navneet Singh [28:09]: I would say it requires the guts to be misunderstood for a while,
Russell Quinan [28:13]: Mmm.
Navneet Singh [28:13]: or the customers understand you fully.
## Reframing cybersecurity as an accelerator
Russell Quinan [28:16]: That's a really interesting insight. That's, and I believe, absolutely correct. So last question on this series. What's the one thing security marketing gets wrong about how buyers actually make decisions?
Navneet Singh [28:31]: Hmm. Well, I would say when they treat security as a break, while the world, the buyers want it to be an accelerator. security marketing usually says, right, then we stop bad things from happening. We stop threats.
Navneet Singh [28:53]: But good marketing says that our security is so good that you can finally go fast.
Navneet Singh [29:01]: And so similarly for, if I apply similar kind of concept to it for a slightly non-security, a slightly different field or non-security field, you would say, you know, your AI ethics and the bias mitigation, they aren't just compliance checks. They are the reason why an enterprise can finally unleash autonomous hiring or things like that with human in the loop without getting sued. That's a competitive advantage. That's instead of being a lock on a door, that's a competitive advantage where you can go faster than your competitors. can address your customers needs and requirements fast.
## The lightning round
Russell Quinan [29:45]: Great answer, and yet another great answer, Okay, well now it's time for my mom's favorite part of the podcast, the lightning round. Now,
Navneet Singh [29:54]: All right.
Russell Quinan [29:54]: these are questions, no big thinking, no explanations, just give me your answer, okay? This is we learn a little bit more about Nav. What's the most overused word in marketing decks?
Navneet Singh [30:06]: Strategy I think
Russell Quinan [30:10]: One metric you secretly don't trust.
Navneet Singh [30:13]: Share of voice
Russell Quinan [30:14]: Best idea, you almost killed and regret it.
Navneet Singh [30:20]: our agents screening millions because we thought that that might be seen as a replacement for a human.
Navneet Singh [30:29]: But I think it's the best idea because customers actually want to screen millions to get the best talent.
Russell Quinan [30:35]: Mm-hmm. Okay. Worst idea that somehow worked.
Navneet Singh [30:39]: I don't know. I don't know. I'm not going think about that. Yes, pass.
Russell Quinan [30:40]: Okay, that's good, that's okay. You can say pass. Slide everyone pretends to read, but really doesn't.
Navneet Singh [30:47]: the risks and dependencies slide.
Russell Quinan [30:52]: Of course, of course. The phrase that instantly makes you skeptical.
Navneet Singh [30:57]: I've talked to a lot of people.
Russell Quinan [31:00]: Mm. Okay. Product marketers are secretly just what?
Navneet Singh [31:06]: Magicians?
Russell Quinan [31:08]: Ooh, okay. AI in marketing. Is it a miracle, a menace, or a mess?
Navneet Singh [31:13]: Yeah, in marketing, I believe it's a miracle.
Russell Quinan [31:17]: One meeting you'd happily delete forever.
Navneet Singh [31:20]: status or staff meeting where everybody goes through status.
Russell Quinan [31:25]: Agreed. What hill would you die on in a brand discussion?
Navneet Singh [31:29]: not doing something because of budget constraints.
Russell Quinan [31:32]: Music to my ears. What CMOs worry about at 3 AM that no one talks about?
Navneet Singh [31:38]: Is my brand campaign really going to help me in the long run? Yes.
Russell Quinan [31:43]: Is it going to work? Most common ways smart marketers overthink themselves into mediocrity.
Navneet Singh [31:51]: not trusting their gut.
Russell Quinan [31:52]: One marketing best practice that should be retired immediately.
Navneet Singh [31:56]: Analysis, analysis of things like cost per lead.
Russell Quinan [32:00]: Okay? If marketing had a warning label, what would it say?
Navneet Singh [32:04]: Pass. don't know. All right.
Russell Quinan [32:05]: Okay, last one, this is the last one. Finish this sentence. Great marketing isn't about being louder, it's about being.
Navneet Singh [32:17]: It's about... I don't know about being, but it's about love.
Russell Quinan [32:21]: Hmm, okay, you don't have to explain it. I like just leaving it right there. That's
Navneet Singh [32:24]: Yes. Yes.
Russell Quinan [32:27]: intriguing and actually at the 100,000 foot view, I think you're right. I really do. Well, Nav, thank you so much for joining us on Marketing Mischief and Mayhem. You've been wonderful and I know the folks watching the show will be very happy and informed by your wonderful answers. So thank you so much for joining me. I had a great time.
Navneet Singh [32:48]: Thank you Russell, it was great being here.
About TheorySF
TheorySF is a San Francisco brand strategy and creative agency working with B2B technology companies to sharpen positioning, create meaningful differentiation and develop marketing people actually notice.
TheorySF also publishes Brand Theories, its ongoing collection of thinking for CMOs and senior marketing leaders on brand strategy, positioning, creativity, AI, growth and modern B2B marketing.
